'I'd work for free': Cassie Campbell on her passion for growing the women's game

Cassie Campbell-Pascall stopped coaching hockey this season, but the two-time Olympic gold medallist and IIHF Hall of Famer is still as involved in the game as ever. Campbell-Pascall does colour commentary for the NHL on ESPN, she’s a special advisor for the PWHL, she’s set to join CBC’s broadcasting crew as an analyst for the upcoming Olympics, she has a book full of hockey stories coming out later this year, and she’s a hockey mom to her 15-year-old daughter, Brooke.  

Sportsnet caught up with Campbell-Pascall to talk about her job with the PWHL, to find out if she sometimes cheers from the press box, to pick her brain on PWHL expansion, and to pressure her to prognosticate about the Olympic women’s gold medal final.  

SPORTSNET: This ‘special advisor’ role with the PWHL, what does it involve? 

CAMPBELL-PASCALL:  When the league started, like, it's my passion, I'd work for free. And so, I just said, ‘Heff [Jayna Hefford, the league’s executive VP of Hockey Operations], whatever you need from me, let me know.’ She came up with this role with [PWHL vice president] Chris Burkett and me — and Meghan [Duggan, New Jersey Devils director of player development] is kind of doing the same thing, except Megan's called a ‘consultant.’

I just kind of helped the league get started. So, I wear many hats, but I don't wear the main hat — I have Amy Scheers [the PWHL’s SVP of business operations], my business boss, and Jayna is my hockey ops boss.

What are some of those hats?

Meghan and I are co-chairs of the rules and competition committee. I bring in people like [former NHL referee] Bill McCreary and [former NHLer] Mike Murphy. They're part of our player safety group, and Ryan Getzlaf, we had him come and speak to our teams before last year. 

I make those connections, and I help our broadcasting group. We have broadcasting calls every week, and I've worked with Gigi Marvin and Megan Bozek [former players turned broadcasters]. I watch games with them, and I never had that help as a broadcaster, so I'm trying to help our broadcasters, especially those that are doing it for the very first time. And [Duggan] and I are working on some rule things that Heff needs done, and we have an analytics project we're working on…

This role is part-time? Sounds full-time… 

Yeah, well my big thing for Heff was: I don't want to travel, if you can help it. I'm a two-million miler, I'm like the top on WestJet, I didn't need to fly anymore. And my daughter, she's 15, and I wanted to be home more. And so, Heff has made me travel minimally, which has been great. She’ll say ‘Cass, I really need you for this.’ And then Amy Scheer, I just help her. Sometimes she'll say, ‘Hey, do you have a contact for this?’ I’ll call someone and help — honestly, whatever they ask of me. 

So, I work behind the scenes and I do whatever tasks and committees. Like, I was on the expansion committee and we researched expansion for a good seven months. I helped bring in NHL expansion team people, and we researched the heck out of that. Whatever's asked, I'm there 110 per cent. It does sometimes feel a little bit more than part-time, but I love everything about it. 

You and Hefford were teammates for a long time. What’s it like working together? 

I love that Heff just says, ‘Do this.’ And I’m like, ‘Yeah, uh-huh, okay!’ It’s interesting because our careers were different. I was the [Team Canada] captain and I was like, ‘Ok Heff, you know, this and that’ [laughs]. Now she's the captain, you know? So, our friendship is business now, we talk work. And that's been an interesting transition.

I'm writing a book, and the first sentences are about Jayna calling to tell me, ‘We did it.’ Like ‘We,’ as in women's hockey. And she's doing a great job. She's so inclusive, people love working for her, but what I'm most proud of for her is finally I feel like she's getting recognition that she has deserved her whole career. Heff was always in the shadows of, like, me and Wick [Hayley Wickenheiser] and Kim St-Pierre, but she was such a great player. She scored some of the biggest goals. She scored more big goals than Wick and [Danielle] Goyette, definitely more than me.

Yeah, she's in the Hockey Hall of Fame and she's gotten that recognition, but I'm just happy that people now know the great person and the great leader that she is. She doesn’t care about any of that stuff, but that's where I'm happiest for her. 

What she's been able to do, and our whole team — Amy Scheer, the full-time staff, and I give all the credit to the full-time staff. But what we’ve been able to pull off, in not even three years — it’s unheard of. 

How often do you speak with players, and what do you talk about? 

Both Meghan and I, we have players reach out to us, educating themselves about the league, or maybe they air their frustrations sometimes [laughs]. But I think that's the good thing about having Meghan and I around, is they all kind of trust us, and people just reach out when they have something to add or say. And we can kind of educate them. 

What sorts of frustrations do they air? 

They have questions about how the league is going and I get a lot of calls about marketing, like, ‘I got this opportunity, what’s your opinion on it?’ It’s all over the map and I wouldn’t say it’s 50 times a year, but 10 to 20. And it’s often education, learning about the league and how it’s going. With the rules and competition committee, our committee, we're always like, ‘Give us feedback. What do you guys think in the dressing room? How do we make the game better? How do we make it safer?’ So, we get calls about that. And sometimes it’s just about life, too. 

Sounds like a Cassie Hotline is part of the job. Given how fast this league is growing, what’s been the biggest challenge there? 

I think the biggest thing for us is that we're often compared to the NHL, which has been around for more than 100 years, and the expectation is that's where we should be, that's how they do it. And we keep reminding everyone: We just started. We've really come a long way, but we're still in Year 3. We're still learning and still pushing and we're growing. Expansion was a whirlwind, and potentially we're going to expand again. 

I think people compare us to leagues that have been around for years and years and I'm not quite sure that's fair. I would say that's the hard thing. It's just the expectations for a league that's three years old, it's tough to live up to, maybe, sometimes. 

What can you share about expansion, and are you hoping Calgary gets a franchise? 

Of course. Calgary is where I live, I'd love to have a team. I know Amy Scheer has come out publicly and said two to four teams. So, yeah, I mean, I think expansion is happening. And I'll be honest with you, I know of possibilities: I know of the list, but I have no say or no control over where that happens. Those decisions are made well above me. 

How long is the list?

This is one thing I cannot tell you [laughs]. But the good thing is there's a lot of people who want a team. And could we say that 10 years ago? No. But now people want a team and the list is long. 

You coached your daughter up until this season. What kind of a coach were you? 

I think I was fun [laughs]. I was usually the only female coach, or one of two. But I expected good habits, I expected hard work, I expected kids to push themselves, but I also understood the issues they maybe had coming into practice, from school and life. I knew how to push them and I knew also to have fun, and I think that was really important. And I love when I see kids that I've coached come up to me at the rink and they're like, ‘What up, Coach Cass?’ And I'll be honest with you, they didn't know who I was. 

Really?

Until after the first practice. You could always tell they'd go home, talk to their parents and then you'd see them the next day at practice, they'd be like: ‘Coach Cassie, you won an Olympic medal?!’ And I’m like, ‘Oh, who told you – your mom or your dad?’ These kids just know me as ‘Brooke’s mom.’ That's the coolest thing is that I can always tell when they find out, because they come back and their eyes are wide, and they kind of look at you different.

What PWHL team does Brooke cheer for? 

Her favourite players are Sarah Nurse and Emma Maltais. She loved Toronto at one point, and now she's torn between Toronto and Vancouver [where Nurse now plays]. But those two players she really likes, and it's because of Tiktok [laughs].

You’re not on the ice coaching, but do you play pickup or get into any games these days? 

I did the Fantasy Camp in Toronto last year [where fans get to play and chat with pros and legends of the game] and that was the first time I had my full equipment on since I retired. 

What? You retired in 2006. You’ve got to be kidding.

No. And I was awful. Like, I'm really good in my coach's outfit with just my skates, but the moment I had to put my equipment on, I was terrible.

I'm starting to want to play again, but life is still so much about hockey and it's the same with Brad [Pascall, her husband, assistant general manager of the Calgary Flames] that we don't want to go and play hockey. I do yoga and he goes for walks and we just do stuff outside of the game when we have time.

What is it like for you seeing players come out of college these days with so much talent? 

You know what? I can only fill their water bottles. I look at how they're coming into the PWHL, like [Sirens forward] Casey O'Brien, and in Boston, Haley Winn, and [Abby] Newhook, and Hustler — [Frost forward] Abby Hustler, my favourite player by the way, because she is from Prince Edward Island and that’s where my family’s from. But anyway, they’re so talented, and they’re so fit. I heard Haley Winn blew the bike test out of the water in Boston. They’ve been training and playing kind of full-time since they were way younger, and you can see it. And I think that's why expansion is viable because we're going to have this huge influx every year of such talented players.  

Like [University of Minnesota and Team USA forward]Abbey Murphy next season…

Abbey Murphy’s ridiculous. I'm not gonna lie, I'd want to knock her out if I played against her [laughs]. But I appreciate her style of play, and how frustrating she is, but yet, she is so good.

You pointed out that you’re adding ‘author’ to your resume this year. What’s the book about? 

I tell some stories, but it's not a, ‘Look at all the things I've done, hear me roar.’ It's deep into my life and personal life, too, and the imperfections. It's not a rah-rah Cassie Campbell book. It’s more like, ‘This is me, this is who I am, the challenges, some of the things I’ve faced.’ I'm excited about it, but it's not going to be what people think, you know? It's going to be personal, which is, I think, important.

It’s going to be called Just a Girl. As you know, that means so many things to us. Like how many times where you told, ‘Oh, you're just a girl, you can't do this, you can do that.’ And then the fact is I'm just this girl that grew up in Brampton and I don't think of myself as bigger or better than anybody else. And so that's the whole premise behind it.

Now I have that No Doubt song in my head. Do you know that one?

Whoa, yes! I'm going to put that on in my car when I go pick up my daughter at school today. 

When you step back and look at the product, is the PWHL everything you dreamt a pro women’s league would be?

I've always dreamt this. We all have thought that this is how it would be. Like, from the moment the puck stopped at the 1998 Olympics [the first Winter Games to feature women’s hockey] and the final whistle blew, everyone in women's hockey believed that this was possible. And the fact that it took so long and there were so many ups and downs and growing pains, and the frustration of it. But we finally have one league that's going to work — it's going to work. 

And we have amazing people behind the scenes. And the leagues before us, the PHF, the COWHL, the CWHL, the original NWHL, the other version of the NWHL, the Western Women's Hockey League — all the leagues have played a role in where we are today, every person in those leagues has played a pivotal role in making this happen.

And at the same time, I still have that pit in my stomach. You know, the Canadian Women's Hockey League folded. I'll never forget, the [Team Canada] girls at the women's world championship calling me in the middle of the night and being like, ‘Oh my god, did you know about this?’ I’ll never forget that, and so I still have this pit.

But I know we’re in the best possible format to be successful, and that’s the truth. We’ve come a long way. And we’ve got the financial backing. We no longer have one staff member trying to do it all, you know?  

Do you think that pit will go away? 

I hope it does. But I guess I'm just — I'm an old dog, right? So, I still have that pit. It doesn't linger as much, but I think that's why I want to help the league as much as I can. 

You’ll be broadcasting at the Olympics, but no cheering in the press box, right? 

Umm… of course, I'm cheering for Canada — like, of course. And I get it, I work for the [PWHL] and we have Czech players and Swedes and Finns and Americans, but they know. I'm going to be good and impartial on the broadcast, maybe, but I think everyone knows who I’m cheering for. 

Who’s going to win Olympic gold? 

I think the U.S. is the best I've ever seen, their program. But there's something about this [Canadian] group that reminds me of 2002, where by far the U.S. were the better team that year — by far — and I think it's the same case this year, but there's something about our pride, our culture, having a star that can simply take over the game, in [Marie-Philip] Poulin. There's something about that, that I just feel we stay even keeled, we don't get too high. [Team USA] have 12 first-time players, and both their top goalies are first-time Olympians — and the Olympics is a whole other thing. 

And so, I do think the U.S. is by far the better team on the ice, but so was the U.S. in 2002, and we found a way.  

So, Canada’s going to win?

Well, yeah. I mean, I’m not this bold predictor [laughs], but I’m cheering for Canada to win.